It starts like a joke: A Catholic theologian, a rabbi's brother and an atheist all walk into a bookshop.
But where the lead-up and punch line should be, the characters gather instead to offer only discussion and thoughtful analysis of the night's topic: What did the Founding Fathers mean when they invoked "Divine Providence" in the Declaration of Independence?
Twice monthly at the Kensington Row Bookshop, the Catholic, the Jew, the atheist and an assortment of Baptists, agnostics and others come together in a ragtag congregation known as The Erasmus Group, named for Renaissance Catholic scholar and humanist Desiderius Erasmus, to debate and discuss spiritual topics.
Founder Gonzalo Palacios, a Catholic and a philosophy teacher at Prince George's Community College, said he started the group two years ago as a way to foster spiritual dialogue.
"I feel that this country is losing its spirituality," Palacios said. "It's losing that dimension, the spiritual dimension. It's not that it is becoming, it has become too materialistic."
But at the discussion last week, it was clear that in some places, spirituality is still spirited.
Joy West, a black woman from Silver Spring, objected to any concept of divinity held by slave holders who would not have applied it to her.
"You can't take away what was happening at the time, who was there, where they came from," West said.
Fred Schlesinger, a Jewish man from Silver Spring, said that was a 21st Century objection to an 18th Century worldview, and couldn't be applied fairly in the discussion of Divine Providence as described in the Declaration of Independence. Gil Calloway of Chevy Chase looked at it practically:
"They were taking on the British Empire, and they were saying, God, if you're out there, help us beat ‘em."
Discussion about what Providence meant to members of the group varied as well. Richard Barry of Kensington complained it had a "tinge of determinism;" Tim Healy of Chevy Chase said because you never know when it's coming, Providence is "a lot more fun than that."
During occasionally heated debates between members, another Erasmian generally jumps in with a joke. On one such occasion, Palacios was trying to steer the conversation back to "What does Providence mean to you?"
"How ‘bout, Rhode Island?" offered Shirley Davin of Kensington, and the tension was immediately diffused by laughter.
After the meeting, Davin said even though they frequently disagree, the diversity of the group is what makes it fascinating.
"I think my experience has been that the only thing these people have in common is a sense of humor," Davin said.
A Catholic, Davin said she goes because "It kind of tempts the brain to think about things in a different way."
West, a Baptist who was raised Methodist, agreed.
"The fact that it's a truly diverse group of people and a group of people I wouldn't normally associate with in my everyday experience, it becomes a healthy exchange," she said. "It raises my awareness in terms of how other people think and the basis of their thoughts and presents the opportunity, the rare beauty and opportunity, to sit down with people that do have very divergent opinions."
Schlesinger, who usually goes to Synagogue only on holidays, but whose brother is a rabbi, said the group has given him the opportunity to learn about the spirituality of others.
"I think a lot of times you learn how much they are similar to you," Schlesinger said. "Even people that don't believe in God at all, they might be atheists but they still are looking for something spiritual."
Palacios said in its third season, he sees the group as a success. Even though the discussions can sometimes get passionate, he said it helps the advancement of open spiritual discourse.
"I've seen some results," Palacios said. "People come back the next time and they say, ‘You made me think. I've been thinking about it all week.'"
The next meeting of The Erasmus Group will be Sept. 9 at 7 p.m. at the Kensington Row Bookshop, 3786 Howard Ave. in Kensington.
